Management
John Paul Jones Arena
PO Box 400862
Charlottesville, VA. 22904-4862
My wife and I paid $130 to see the Dave Matthews Band at John Paul Jones Arena on Nov. 20. We had to leave ten minutes into the show because of the unbearable haze of marijuana smoke. I would like my money back.
Since the JPJ arena opened, we have attended a number of events, including concerts by other big-name acts such as Billy Joel, Bruce Springsteen, Neil Diamond, and even Jon Stewart. We were very excited about finally seeing Dave Matthews in concert.
From the abundance of alcohol in the parking lot, it was clear that a lot of people were there to party and not necessarily to listen to the music. However, my concerns about what it might be like in the arena were assuaged by the heavy security. Everybody was patted down and a security officer even made me throw away a little 4-oz. bottle of water that I was carrying. My wife, who is getting over a cold, had to empty her pockets of tissues.
The random seat assignment had placed us very high up in row V, which was further from the stage than we had ever been before. That aside, the opening act was great, we had a decent view, and we were energized just to be there.
But all of that excitement degenerated within moments after Dave Matthews came on stage and we were immediately enveloped in a heavy and inescapable fog of marijuana smoke. I have asthma and, although it is normally manageable, I could not tolerate the sheer density of this smoke. I covered my mouth and nose with a cloth at first, hoping that the smoke would lift, but after just two songs I had to leave.
We found a police officer in the lobby, told him our seat numbers, and he and his partner went to look. They came back a few minutes later and told us that so many people were smoking there was no way they could identify individuals. The officer apologized, but said that it had been the same the night before.
I found an arena employee and asked if we could possibly sit further down where, I hoped, the smoke would not be as bad, but she told me that we could only sit in the seats assigned to us. We then tried standing just inside one of the entrances in our section so we could at least see and hear the concert, but the stench was too much and we had to go outside.
I am deeply disappointed by this entire experience, and the root of my dissatisfaction is with JPJ. I have spent enough time at raucous outdoor concerts to know what to expect in those settings. But when the John Paul Jones Arena first opened, we were promised a friendly venue that would benefit the entire community. Now I would have to be persuaded to ever set foot inside again.
I am appalled that your security prevented us from carrying in perfectly legal items such as water (I could not even bring in my emptied container, though I was welcome to pay $4 for bottled water once inside), while other concert-goers were able to bring illegal substances into the arena. This was security theater only, and it created an unhealthy and inhospitable environment which drove out law-abiding citizens.
We were seated in section 311, row V, seats 3 and 4. I paid $65 for each ticket. I would like a full refund of $130.
Down on the floor, there was plenty of room and we didn’t see any smoking. I’m so sorry your night was ruined. I wish they had let you come down there.
You must be joking. This was a DMB concert. What did you expect? You were in the minority this time. And from what I’ve heard, the smoking wasn’t that bad considering the excessive security searches and pat downs that went on. I think you have officially reached that too old, “you darn kids, get off my lawn” phase of your life. Stick with the Neil Diamond concerts.
I’m resisting the urge to state the obvious that you pretty much have to be high to stand listening to DMB’s music. Beyond that snarky comment, were this show at a dive bar or small venue I’d be less likely to side with Sean. But this was a major venue who clearly states that they are “smoke free facility”, cigarettes or otherwise. Why let the pot smokers off when they don’t let people with bourbon or beer (or kleenex, apparently) pass through their gates?
@Seriously?, I doubt that you are allergic to pot smoke. I am, and it’s a pain in the ass when someone is near you smoking it. Not being able to breathe does ruin your evening. Yes, Sean probably expected pot smoke to be there. But JPJ should have let him move to a different area as they readily admitted they were doing nothing to curtail the smoke issues. Therefore, as JPJ was not following their own rules (or those of the state of VA) I feel Sean is entitled to at least a partial refund.
I was at the Friday and Saturday night shows, and we sat higher up (3rd level) for the Saturday night show. We did notice a bit more smoke, but I would hardly call it unbearable. I have several allergies and it didn’t bother me. But I won’t judge you because I have no idea what it’s like to have Asthma.
But I will just say this – there are going to be so many college-aged kids and younger folks at a DMB show, there is bound to be more pot smoking, and perhaps you will come to expect this next time you think about going to his shows. There’s really nothing the security can do once it gets inside because they really work the perimeters, not the crowd. I’m not giving JPJ a complete pass here because they do overkill with security guards and they shouldn’t give you a BS answer like they did. But sadly, it’s the truth in going to many bands’ shows.
That being said – I’ve been to many, many DMB shows and I can guarantee you, it is a small minority that lights up.
@Brad – come on, man… they are one of the most successful bands in history. You don’t have to like them but avoid the stupid stereotype of “you have to be high.” I’ve never smoked weed in my life and I’ve loved DMB for almost 15 years, and I have a pretty strong musical background. Stop the hating..
Fair point, Jeff. DMB is certainly one of, if not the most successful bands in history…and I don’t particularly care for them. My comment was, of course, tongue-in-cheek which is why I referred to it as snarky straight away.
Like Jeff, I have been to more small venue shows than I can count and I’ve never had a problem with pot smoke, and it has definitely been present at many of the shows. I don’t know if Sean’s asthma reaction is at all like mine, but pot smoke sets me off way worse than cigarette smoke and I’ve still never had a problem. So, I’m guessing that the fog was fairly thick in such a large arena for him to be effected.
I think the main thing that bothers me most is that the security takes the time to remove water bottles, kleenex, cameras and whatever else from nearly every attendee but does little to help one person who has a legitimate complaint with the quality of the service being offered by the venue. They obviously know it’s a problem and can do little about it at the time of complaint. A good business would promptly apologize and offer a refund or other reasonable compensation. Seeing as how they charged $65 a ticket it would be chump change for them to offer him a partial credit towards another event which I’m sure he would attend and proceed to spend money on water bottles and kleenex from the venues various concessions.
Would this lead to a rash of other people demanding refunds? Possibly, but I’m guessing most people wouldn’t register a complaint against the venue that brought their favorite band to town. As such, it probably took a fair amount of frustration and anger for Sean to compose this letter and make it public.
Posting the letter here on my website was not done out of anger, but because I genuinely wanted to hear what other people had to say. I appreciate the civilized comments.
More than one person has retorted along the lines of “dude, it was a DMB concert; you should have known!”, and perhaps I should have, but that really doesn’t take JPJ off the hook here. My asthma and allergies are generally quite manageable, but I have learned to stay out of smoky dives. We never got to see Dave Matthews at TRAX for that very reason, but I really thought that a JPJ show would be different. Had I any inkling it would have turned out like this, I might even have paid extra to get floor seats; friends who were down there said that they were aware of the smoke, but it wasn’t as bad.
I think I may have also tapped in to a common grievance about what I called “security theater”, as evidenced by recent reactions to the full-body TSA screenings. Nearly a decade after 9-11, the public is becoming deeply involved in discussions about what constitutes actual security. I would submit that disallowing water bottles at a public event while having no real measures to prevent marijuana in a non-smoking facility just adds to our collective frustration.
If I have one regret about posting the letter, it is that JPJ has not really had the opportunity to reply. I mailed the letter to them on Monday, but I’m already getting calls from local media outlets for interviews. I declined. I think it’s only fair to give JPJ management the proper time to respond. The ideal resolution would be that a) I get a refund; and b) JPJ takes a long look at their security policies and that they work harder to create the safe and hospitable environment that the community has been promised.
For your reading pleasure: http://www.antsmarching.org/forum/showthread.php?t=297770
As a fellow blogger and DMB fan, I invite you to read this blog entry I wrote about the weekend’s shows in C’Ville.
http://www.everylittlethingblog.com/2010/11/last-stop-in-cville-2010.html
I was in 107 Night One and 302 Night Two. I am actually allergic to cigarette smoke, and marijuana smoke doesn’t help. Neither night did I notice really even a small amount of smoke.
I’m sorry the smoke was that bad for you, but you missed one of the greatest DMB shows of 2010.
Also, I went to 9 shows this year and JPJ security was one of the tightest of any of them.
So you missed the band’s last concert for about 16 months because you can’t tolerate pot smoke? I wish I would have known and would have greatly taken those tickets off your hands.
I’m sorry you seriously couldn’t have figured out a better way of handling this without leaving.
I highly doubt you will get a refund.
As a non smoker and an avid fan myself, you must understand that this is a part of the event. To demand money back? Caveat Emptor. If you do get your money back donate to a charity or cause that the band stands behind.
Do your homework before you attend an event. There are also outdoor concerts you can attend in the summer.
I don’t feel sorry for you and your guest. Next time enhale a little, it might relax your tightness.
Well this has been interesting.
First, fair is fair, I did get a very business-like but considerate response from the JPJ Management, saying that it was “disappointing to hear that our staff was unable to assist you with identifying a solution that would have permitted you to experience the entire event” and asking if we would be their guests at an “upcoming event of your choice”, which would be great if I were, say, a big Mannheim Steamroller fan.
Really, an acknowledgment and an offer of some reciprocation is all that I should expect, so I appreciate it. I think that there is a larger question to be asked here about security policies that disallow completely innocuous items like a small water bottle, yet somehow miss copious amounts of illicit drugs, but that is not a fight that I am going to win here or now.
I have been called naïve for not recognizing that this would happen at a DMB concert, something I now recognize; though, to be fair, I’ve been at several other JPJ events and nothing like this has happened before. So yes, this was the first DMB concert I’ve attended; I hope that I’ll have another opportunity and in a healthier venue.
It may have been equally unsophisticated of me not to realize, in this age of social media, that this story would get some play beyond the confines of my little website. In addition to a mention at C-Ville Weekly and a call from the Charlottesville Newsplex for an interview (I declined; I don’t want my ten minutes of fame to be for something as trivial as this), my letter was linked to an online forum where, although I had a few defenders, a substantial number of people took the opportunity to call me a loser, a goober, an anal bitch, an ass hat, and then some unpleasant names.
At times in my life I’m sure that I’ve been all those things, so I won’t argue with this either.
I would like to clear the record on a few things, though. For one, I’m not an anti-marijuana activist. If anything, I am simply agnostic on the issue. I really don’t care what you do at home, just keep it out of my face and we’ll be fine. Nope, I’ve never smoked, but I think the reasons for that should be obvious by now.
Second, this was not some bizarre bid on my part for attention. Far from it. There are any number of things I’d rather be known for then as some clueless square who was scandalized by drugs at a rock and roll concert! Heaven forefend!
Finally, I didn’t run to the cops, as some people on the forum have insinuated. The police officer approached me while we were in the lobby, and yes I felt a little foolish complaining about marijuana smoke at a concert, but at that point I really was hoping that he would help us find another pair of seats, perhaps further down, so we could just sit somewhere else and enjoy the show.
The last thing we wanted to do was just leave. Now I am just really, really disappointed that we missed the concert, particularly amid rumors that this may be Dave’s last, at least for some while.
So let me put a bow on this story with these parting remarks. To the management at JPJ arena, I appreciate your quick response and kindly offer. I’ll sleep on it. To the people who understood that my asking for a refund was a reasonable request, I thank you for your support. And to the people who think I’m a bad-tempered and whiny little bitch … meh!
Sean, you can see from that Ants Marching thread a good chunk of the reasons why I decided to disentangle myself from the DMB community. While there are some lovely people, there are a lot of pathetic, self-entitled assholes. To a man, I’d bet that the folks commenting on that forum think that everybody should just leave other people alone and do their own thing (man)…but everybody else should also put up with whatever *their* “own thing” is. If your complaint had been about people smoking cigarettes, they would have agreed with you. But since it’s weed, somehow that’s totally different. They’re overgrown children.
Anyhow, yes, you’re absolutely right. It’s a non-smoking venue, and you have every right to expect that there not be smoking. End of story.
while i am a father of 1 and i hate the smell of marijuana (even though i may have enjoyed such in the past) by purchasing tickets to any concert/venue event you are releasing liability from the promoter, venue and talent. you are acknowledging inherent risks associated with such. just as if you had parked in a garage or parking lot that you pay for, the owners/operator is not responsible for any theft or damage to your vehicle. while states may institute no-smoking policies, it is different from state to state on what the enforcement is. the owner/operator is obliged to to ask individuals to leave their venue, however the owner/operator can make the case that searching for 9,000 smokers in a crowd of 18,000 proud can be time consuming and regardless of how large their security detail is, there is no feasible way to remove every single patron.
also just a side note, venues/ticketing agents/talent/promoters will not issue a refund for the simple fact if they do it for you, they will set a precedence and have to begin issuing for anyone else. at that point they assume liability of such acts performed on their property. this is not negligence on their part, however it is negligence on your part for not understanding inherent risks.
What are you kidding? Grow up you frigging jackass.
I think its ridiculously funny that you think JPJ should refund you for something that happens at pretty much every concert. Yeah it might happen more at a DMB show but the fact that you feel you deserve a refund from JPJ is straight laughable. I dont want to be rude but that is the most ridiculous demand you could make. Another option is to not tell security that you are moving, stay up in the upper section, and find new seats. There were a lot of open spots if you looked for them. Sounds like you gave up pretty quick and seeing the band didnt really matter. I would never let that affect my dmb viewing experience. And even if it did. Not after 10 minutes. I would have done whatever it took to stay and see the band. You missed a damn good show and I pity the fact that you feel you are worthy of a refund.
I attended the Saturday night concert in Charlottesville, which was my 25th time seeing DMB. My experience that weekend combined everything i love, and have loved, about my favorite band since 1996 with everything i’ve come to dispise about their “fans”. By fans i’m referring to the type of people who show up drunk, drink much more, smoke as soon as the lights go dark, and generally have no regard for the people around them who actually want to hear and enjoy the music. This past weekend i had my own ordeal with the people next to me who, for whatever reason, had tried to cram 5 people into their 2 seats and seemed surprised that i wanted them to move so that i could sit in the seats my wife and i paid for.
I thought the actual in arena security was a joke and certainly the worst out of the many places i’ve seen the band. Much like you, we were told by police they could do nothing about the situation, and the usher for our section could not have been a day under 70 years old and didn’t seem particularly interested in checking tickets or enforcing seat assignments.
As someone who has formed emotional attachments with this band and their music i would apologize for your bad experience and encourage you to give them another chance; the band are incredibly talented and put on quite a show. as a realist though i would say that at least half the DMB concerts i’ve seen have been similar to the experience you described earlier. sad but true.
I wonder if you smoke pot at disney on ice what will happen? There was a lot of smoke that night, quite disappointing.